Of course. The Russian programs account for this by increasing the number of exercises used over the years. They start with a narrow range and increase the exercises until they have 100 different choices (literally). They also start young athletes off with a very large amount of GPP (not just sled dragging either - many different sports). There are plenty of things to note though: 1) Not all systems use a varied approach. Abadjiev doesn't do max singles but his exercise menu is still very small for beginners and only gets smaller. 2) Even a system with a large number of different means still relies on the athlete having perfected technique in the earlier stages (so they need to do the actual lifts less) and the athlete still performs the classic lifts quite often at a high level as well. This process can be reversed and has been for Americans (like Shane Hamman) but it's much more rare. 3) When an athlete is at his physical peak (basically the highest stage of mastery) a lot of the assistance work is dropped and the lifter focuses on raising the intensity with the classic lifts. Time devoted to GPP also decreases as the lifter matures. 4) Way more powerlifters have failed to become good weightlifters than have made it. Also, this only happens in America, where the competition, frankly, sucks. You don't see any non-American powerlifters switching and winning in their countries.
Every powerlifting coach thinks American weightlifters just need to get stronger and too many weightlifting coaches focus too much on technique. Neither is optimal. Only when the two are brought up together, proportionally, can you achieve the best results.
Oh, also, the powerlifting half squat is not even mentioned in the training of weightlifters outside of America. The idea that developing leg strength through any means necessary would certainly be considered ridiculus by a weightlifter who had actually won something internationally or a coach who had coached such an athlete. It's not just Rippetoe and Kilgore, it's a lot of powerlifters.
Interesting. The distorted bell curve showing few lifts for the Novice, to many for the Intermediate, to few again for the Advanced and Elite trainees is fun to think about. It also implies a lot about the recovery needs from a high intensity session with the core lifts at a high level.
I don't put much stock in the training of Weightlifters outside America. Those programs are state-sponsored to funnel athletes with the highest genetic potential into the program. The lifestyle (drugs, state-sponsored jobs, etc.) must also be considered in their recovery. Granted, I don't know much about the recruiting process for OL here in America, but from anecdotal evidence (Shane Hamman, etc.) it appears to self-selecting (ie a strong dude just shows up and tries to get really good, perhaps WAY too late in the lifetime training process).
As for randomly just getting strong enough to win world championships, well, Paul Anderson did it! hahahaha
"Interesting. The distorted bell curve showing few lifts for the Novice, to many for the Intermediate, to few again for the Advanced and Elite trainees is fun to think about. It also implies a lot about the recovery needs from a high intensity session with the core lifts at a high level."
>Ya, but it also has to do with the structure of the Russian system in particular. They focus on technique, then strength only after technique has been mastered, then once you get strong (mainly through assistance lifts) you increase the intensity of the main lifts again and do less assistance. Essentially you master technique such that when you go to the 85%+ range very often your technique still doesn't break down.
"I don't put much stock in the training of Weightlifters outside America. Those programs are state-sponsored to funnel athletes with the highest genetic potential into the program. The lifestyle (drugs, state-sponsored jobs, etc.) must also be considered in their recovery."
>Fair enough, their programs were based off the "strongest lifters" which probably also means drug users. However, 99% of sport science used in America is Eastern European and still hold true for the un-assisted lifter. A lot of what Kilgore said in that article echos Russian sport science.
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Of course. The Russian programs account for this by increasing the number of exercises used over the years. They start with a narrow range and increase the exercises until they have 100 different choices (literally). They also start young athletes off with a very large amount of GPP (not just sled dragging either - many different sports). There are plenty of things to note though:
1) Not all systems use a varied approach. Abadjiev doesn't do max singles but his exercise menu is still very small for beginners and only gets smaller.
2) Even a system with a large number of different means still relies on the athlete having perfected technique in the earlier stages (so they need to do the actual lifts less) and the athlete still performs the classic lifts quite often at a high level as well. This process can be reversed and has been for Americans (like Shane Hamman) but it's much more rare.
3) When an athlete is at his physical peak (basically the highest stage of mastery) a lot of the assistance work is dropped and the lifter focuses on raising the intensity with the classic lifts. Time devoted to GPP also decreases as the lifter matures.
4) Way more powerlifters have failed to become good weightlifters than have made it. Also, this only happens in America, where the competition, frankly, sucks. You don't see any non-American powerlifters switching and winning in their countries.
Every powerlifting coach thinks American weightlifters just need to get stronger and too many weightlifting coaches focus too much on technique. Neither is optimal. Only when the two are brought up together, proportionally, can you achieve the best results.
Oh, also, the powerlifting half squat is not even mentioned in the training of weightlifters outside of America. The idea that developing leg strength through any means necessary would certainly be considered ridiculus by a weightlifter who had actually won something internationally or a coach who had coached such an athlete. It's not just Rippetoe and Kilgore, it's a lot of powerlifters.
Interesting. The distorted bell curve showing few lifts for the Novice, to many for the Intermediate, to few again for the Advanced and Elite trainees is fun to think about. It also implies a lot about the recovery needs from a high intensity session with the core lifts at a high level.
I don't put much stock in the training of Weightlifters outside America. Those programs are state-sponsored to funnel athletes with the highest genetic potential into the program. The lifestyle (drugs, state-sponsored jobs, etc.) must also be considered in their recovery. Granted, I don't know much about the recruiting process for OL here in America, but from anecdotal evidence (Shane Hamman, etc.) it appears to self-selecting (ie a strong dude just shows up and tries to get really good, perhaps WAY too late in the lifetime training process).
As for randomly just getting strong enough to win world championships, well, Paul Anderson did it! hahahaha
"Interesting. The distorted bell curve showing few lifts for the Novice, to many for the Intermediate, to few again for the Advanced and Elite trainees is fun to think about. It also implies a lot about the recovery needs from a high intensity session with the core lifts at a high level."
>Ya, but it also has to do with the structure of the Russian system in particular. They focus on technique, then strength only after technique has been mastered, then once you get strong (mainly through assistance lifts) you increase the intensity of the main lifts again and do less assistance. Essentially you master technique such that when you go to the 85%+ range very often your technique still doesn't break down.
"I don't put much stock in the training of Weightlifters outside America. Those programs are state-sponsored to funnel athletes with the highest genetic potential into the program. The lifestyle (drugs, state-sponsored jobs, etc.) must also be considered in their recovery."
>Fair enough, their programs were based off the "strongest lifters" which probably also means drug users. However, 99% of sport science used in America is Eastern European and still hold true for the un-assisted lifter. A lot of what Kilgore said in that article echos Russian sport science.
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