So I got a hold of some bands. My cousin who is on the UCLA baseball team was able to grab me a pair from their gym. They're green and huge, not quite sure how much resistance they give. How do you guys go about figuring that out? Anyway. Here it goes.
Banded Sumo Deadlift for Speed
wu
275x5
315x5
365x5
225x10
These were probably one of the most fun training sessions I have had in a while. It was tough as balls locking it out towards the end. My grip was starting to rub on my thighs, thus giving me more resistance and a sweet looking rash. Any pointers on how to aviod that or at least reduce the friction? I ended up just baby powdering my thighs. It helped a little.
Sumo DL for Time
465x3.2
Tried deadlifting once every 15 secondsx4. It was tough, but it felt good. Completely failed on the 4th rep. Probably 3 inches off the ground. Waited another 30seconds or so and tried again. Got it just above the knee and failed. Normally, I would not have done that, but Dave's deadlifting video of his multiple 600 pulls inspired me to kick my own ass.
Zercher Rack Pulls
315x5
405x5
495x5
545x5
We weren't quite sure on what else to do to work on speed for deadlifting. But bands were definitely fun. Pretty excited to see what squating or benching is going to be like.
8 comments:
Hey guys, a few thoughts:
"Speed" training is basically using weights that are 50-75% of 1RM and executing the lifts as quickly as possible. The emphasis isn't on the weight, but on accelerating to produce power. The bands & chains are used in this type of training to force you to accelerate throughout the entire length of motion.
So I think you guys went too heavy if your goal was to become faster. I'd knock the weights down and really concentrate on moving the weight fast.
Also, keep in mind that there are no better lifts than the Olympic lifts for training speed/power. I personally use Power Cleans and High Pulls for this after my speed box squats. See this article for an explanation about differences in power between the O-lifts and the deadlift.
So if your goal is to increase lower body speed/power, I'd recommend something like:
- speed squats (50-75% 1RM, regular or box version)
- Olympic lift variant (ie power clean)
- Jump/Sprint variation (standing jumps, box jumps, 100m dash)
If you want to do a general purpose Deadlift day to increase both absolute strength and train power, then take a page from Jake's book and put the power-intensive lifts first. Something like:
- Olympic lift variant (ex. high pulls)
- Maximal Deadlift sets (> 75% 1RM)
- Whatever else
I basically agree with Phil.
But you can always just say, "We did band-resisted deadlifts" and go as heavy as you like. Just realize it isn't speed work.
Also, its pretty common to work up to a heavy single after whatever band work you do, so it doens't mean you have to stay light the whole session.
And I guess Phil doesn't like speed pulls? If you want to do a speed deadlift day, there's no reason not to include them in that workout... Putting the o-lifts first makes sense in some ways, but we don't compete in those, either.
Finally, if you are doing speed (power) work, usually you do a lot of sets of low reps. Westside recommends something like 8x3 for bench and 10x2 for squat. I find fewer sets of deadlifts are necessary because its so damn heavy, so maybe 8x2.
My 2 cents.
I don't dislike speed pulls, I just think that the Olympic lift variations train the goal (increased power production) more effectively. Mark Rippetoe explains:
CR: In our last interview, you mentioned that you include the deadlift in the training routines of Olympic lifters. You’ve also mentioned elsewhere that you would have powerlifters incorporate power cleans into their training routines. In practice, how would you suggest that the powerlifter implement power cleans into his routine?
MR: George Hechter is the best example I can give you. He pulled up in the mid-800s back when it wasn’t fashionable to do so. He was the guy who showed me how to do this a long time ago. He would power clean all of his deadlift warm-ups. He would start off and power clean 135 lbs, 225 lbs, 315 lbs, and 405 lbs. He would high pull 495 lbs and then deadlift 585 lbs, 675 lbs, 765 lbs, and on up. All of his first work off the floor was explosive.
Louie has taught all of us the importance of the Westside methods in regards to power production off the floor. I really can’t add anything to the discussion that he hasn’t already told us. However, I will add that this is how George did it. Louie just has everyone deadlift fast. I feel you can pull faster off the floor if you know you’re going to clean it. For example, the clean is extremely important because it convinces/forces you to move it fast enough to be able to get under it. If you intentionally high pull a bar, I promise you that it will not come off the floor as fast as it will if you are going to clean it. Even in the most experienced Olympic weightlifters, you will not high pull the bar with the same bar velocity that you will if you know that you have to get it on your shoulders. This is why cleaning is such a good way to incorporate explosion off the floor. In my opinion, it works better for this than the timed deadlift singles.
I think you can incorporate this concept the way George did it, or if you don’t want to do that, you can have a power clean day. You can recover from pulling two times per week if you do it intelligently. Cleans aren’t as difficult to recover from as deadlifts because they aren’t an absolute strength movement, and they don’t get bone-on-bone like a deadlift. You don’t miss a clean for the same reasons that you miss a deadlift, and as a result, the stress is different.
I would use triples and doubles. The heaviest weight you can clean will still come off the floor faster than your deadlift for a powerlifter. But interestingly, if you look at the velocity of the bar off the floor, there isn’t a great deal of difference between a real heavy third attempt clean and jerk and a deadlift. There is some but not as much as you may think. This is also why I advocate the use of heavy deadlifts for Olympic lifters as I mentioned last time. That first pull off the ground looks pretty close to a deadlift to me. As I have stated, I’ve always been of the opinion that if you can deadlift 600 lbs, then that 400-lb clean isn’t going to feel terribly heavy off the floor.
Interesting.
I'm still not 100% convinced that a clean translates to a deadlift, but it certainly seems worth trying.
Ya I'm not convinced either since I doubt I can deadlift very much despite doing Olympic lifts all the time. Also, the pulls for a deadlift and clean are slightly different. But, I've read elsewhere that it's better to practice a lift with many load variations (and thus, speeds) than without them (such as always doing 85%+ lifts).
The bottom line is this: absolute strength is BY FAR the most important part of powerlifting, even to the exclusion of other strengths, but training the other aspects of strength can improve max strength. Just make sure that speed training isn't interfering with (allowing enough recovery for) your max strength training and it'll help improve your lifts.
Oh, and about the order of lifts: yes, it is normally accepted to do lifts fast to slow (power clean, clean, clean pull, deadlift) BUT that doesn't always have to be the case in powerlifting because speed only needs to be a small factor of the competition lift, unlike weightlifting. So, you can do the conventional order of fast to slow if you're doing a speed day. If you have heavy strength work planned then it's ok to do that first, then do the speed work so it doesn't fatigue you.
Also, I know that power production is much greater for O-lifts than any other lifts in terms of percentage, but I bet that if you did power cleans with a given percent of your power cleans max versus speed pulls with the same weight (so an even lower percentage of your deadlift max) then you'd get similar power. That's why Louie has his lifters do such a low percentage of their deadlift when they do speed pulls. The main difference is the second pull is the power clean. If you can easily get the weight off the floor but can't lock out, power cleans will be a huge help because of the increased power production at the top of the lift. If you can't get the weight off the floor power cleans will be of no use because you aren't using enough weight, and the point of highest power production is at the top (in the second pull), where you're already stong.
So, Dean probably shouldn't do power cleans because if he gets it off the floor he'll lock it out for sure. This is likely because of his athletic ability (good jumping/power production with relatively straight legs). Those of you with lockout problems will definitely benefit from power cleans.
Finally, 545lb Zerchers = fucking crazy.
The two times I attempted 513 DL in contest I easily got the weight off the floor and died just above the knees. This is exactly where the second pull of the power clean is supposed to occur. So they are incredibly useful for me.
I used to have the opposite problem (failing on the floor). I added box squatting and below-parallel concentric Zerchers in the mix. The results speak for themselves. So if you're dying on the floor, I'd recommend:
- box squats
- dead-stop/Anderson squats (stop the bar on the pins every rep)
- pause squats (same as above, just no pins and more hamstring stretch reflex)
- low-pin concentric Zercher squats
- when deadlifting, re-set every rep (no bouncing on the floor)
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