So todays workout out went alright I guess. Some douche was giving us crap for slamming the weights, kinda pissed me off. Then Kevin effed his back deadlifting so we cut our workout short. Anyway, it went sorta like this.
Deadlift ( Conventional )
Belted
w/u - starting with 135 working up to 225ish
315x5
405x 5
465x5
.. then kev got hurt. So we called it. Ill probably try to pick it up tomorrow after work.
What would you guys suggest as far as exercises to supplement Deadlift days?
I know like rack pulls, good mornings, zercher rack pulls (if thats what you call them), Back extentions. Keep in mind I'm in a normal gym with limited equipment. no bands chains etc.
Also what would you suggest as far as reps and sets to try to strengthen my deadlift? low reps heavy weight yeah? pyramiding maybe? I can probably take a look at your last deadlifting day workouts. just throwing it out there to see what you guys were working at.
also maybe some glitches in my technique as well could using some tweaking... you guys notice anything from the meet I could work at? Thanks guys. keep up the good work!
10 comments:
Steve, some thoughts:
For the lower portion (to the knees):
- box squats (wide stance for sumo, narrow-er stance for conventional). You have to learn to pause, relax, and re-engage the hip flexors. Use a standard bench to sit on if no box.
- Narrow-stance good mornings (ie the stance you do conventional DL with). I would not recommend going any lower than 5 reps with this. This is because your form will go to shit with very heavy weight, and you will get injured. I know I did.
- Zercher squats off pins. Set the bar down on the pins, sit on a bench, and stand up. Completely concentric exercise, just like the DL. Has the bonus of hitting your abs more than your lower back.
For the higher portion (knees to lockout):
- rack pulls. Place the bar just below the knees and pull. Watch out, it's easy to fry yourself. I like sets of 5.
- heavy shrugs. Put the bar even higher on the pins, and just extend to the full DL lockout. Set the bar down, set your form up again and repeat.
- power cleans. Much easier to recover from than any of the above, and teach you to accelerate throughout the entire movement, especially at the top
- high pulls. Like a power clean, but heavier weight and you don't flip your elbows and rack the weight.
Great assistance movements:
- Romanian DLs
- Stiff-leg DLs
- bent-over rows (strict form, reset the weight on the floor with each rep)
Example ME session if wanted to focus on increasing my conventional DL:
- Conventional DL, work up to 5 RM
- Front Squats, work up to 5RM
- Good Mornings, 3 sets of 6-10
I don't do box squats. I find they ruin your squat stretch reflex if performed too often.
I love heavy good mornings. Unlike Phil, I will go below 5 reps on these. I don't do singles too often, but I like triples. Some of the guys in the gym like doing singles on suspended good mornings, which you could simulate by putting the bar on pins. This really helps with the starting part of the pull.
If you feel too tired to pull, do good mornings with a belt instead. Otherwise, try to do them without a belt and push the stomach out harrrrd to really build the core.
I loathe rack pulls. I will not do them. If you want to work the top, work on speed from the bottom to compensate at the top.
Shrugs are good but I don't emphasize them.
I really like strict stiff-legged deadlifts. These should stretch your hamstrings hard if you're doing them right.
I don't find cleans help either my squat or deadlift, but I do them as a part of speed work. If you don't bands, but do have a spin bar, they can help.
I also like doing deadlift off blocks. Stand on 100s or 45s or something to make your feet higher off. Make sure to have strict form on this, as its easy to get in a bad body positing from having to bend over so far. This really helps with speed off the floor.
I agree with Phil that zercher squats off pins can be useful. I like doing them with the pins high so it's right at the top of the movement and you get a huge glute burn. I would do these later in the workout.
Lunges. These will build the glutes like nothing else. Go heavy and put these second after your main exercise.
PS: No beef with Phil about this. Every lifter responds differently to the lifts, so see what works for you. Apparently our bodies are at opposite ends of the spectrum, haha.
Some general thoughts about deadlifts...
Deadlifts will tire you out the most of any exercise. If you are working up really heavy, you probably won't be able to do more than 1 quality set. This really depends on your recovery ability and advancement in the deadlift specifically, so if you feel you are good for more sets, do it. Dean can do this -- if he misses a weight, we can drop back down and work up and he'll usually get it. You need to see how deadlifts affect you.
Phil and Dave don't like to deadlift every week, for example. Dean and I were deadlifting twice a week for most of the summer.
If you want to build strength, go for 3-5 reps on your work sets, 1-3 reps for maxing out. You don't seem that new to deadlifting, but if you were a complete novice you might go higher to train the muscle patterns.
What assistance exercises depend entirely where you fail in the deadlift. It's all weak point training. I unfortunately didn't get a good look at your deadlifts @ the meet because I was warming up ...
Also, sumo has a few advantages. Since you got 500 the first time you tried it, you might want to try it out for a few weeks and see where it takes you. A few considerations:
- sumo will let you get more out of a deadlift suit. You also can use a squat suit, meaning you spend less $$.
- if you have a wide squat stance, this will tire your hips more and make sumo deadlifting more difficult in a competition. This may or may not be a deal breaker, depending on sumo vs. conventional strength.
- sumo means you have to move the bar a short distance, which obviously makes it easier.
- sumo is easier to get into the starting position (in terms of flexibility). I don't remember this being an issue for you, though.
ALSO
I'm not sure about box squats. I don't like them for squats because after doing them my squat went to shit and my form sucked donkey balls. But they do hit the hips harder than anything, and I noticed that Dean is really bad at them and he has trouble off the floor. There might be something to this. If you are going to do them, be VERY strict about the form, and I wouldn't use any kind of bands or chains until you are comfortable.
Particularly, don't let your hips come up early. If this starts to happen, lower the weight because you are missing the point of the exercise.
Tried some sumo style deadlifts a little more than a week ago with brent, effed me up. my hips and were pretty messed. also my outer head on my quads.(lateralis) I feel like im still recovering from it, not injured just feeling weak in those areas that i demolished. once im 100% im down to give it another try. I assume the soreness that i am feeling from sumo'ing the for the first time is normal?
Thanks for all imput btw. It really helps. I feel my weakest part of the DL is definately from my kness to lock out. Rack pulls here I come.
Yeah, you went very heavy for the first time ever trying sumo. I'm not surprised your hips are destroyed. If/when you go back to it, you might want to do sets of 5 across or something...
You also might find that your weak point changes with sumo. Who knows.
Steve,
Be careful if you're working with a wide stance for the first time (on deadlift or squat). It puts a lot of stress on the hip joint. If you want to go heavy you might want to try putting on briefs or a squat suit without the straps on (if you have them) for hip support until you get used to it.
I've found this to be an issue with squatting but not sumo pulling. You don't need to bring the hips to parallel for deadlifts, so the stress on the joint is much less.
This article has a lot of info.
In particular, glute ham raises are quite effective in my experience.
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