dude. not bad. you're extremely fast off the floor. work your upper back HARD and it will really improve your lockout strength. treat upper back day seriously and keep increasing the weight on the different movements (weighted pullups, t-bars, barbel/dumbbell rows, all that good shit dave does)
Thanks for the advice Brent. I noticed from your training recently that you've been doing mostly regular deadlifts and heavy upper back work for your pulling strength (and you've been making insane progress). Have you seen any benefits from doing rack pulls? I was thinking of incorporating these in addition to upper back work to help me get stronger where I failed 400 above my knees.
Also pay attention to Jake's comments. You need to be in the right form to pull through the top of the motion or all the upper back strength in the world won't mean shit. Or you can do rack pulls with an extremely rounded back to get practice. (Just kidding, don't do that.)
The whole point of upper back work is to allow you to keep your upper back from rounding on the deadlift, which helps keep you from pitching forward as your knees extend. You can strand almost upright with your upper back arched and your lower back rounded and still get 3 reds because you didn't actually lock out at the hip, which requires a straight lower back. Also, arching the lower back allows you to activate your glutes. Right now you are training your lower back, not your glutes. Your lower back needs to be strong in an arched position, not an extended position. I'll try to post a video of what I'm talking about.
Nathan and Jake, could you guys suggest a way to systematically go about getting better at using good form? If I wanted to really focus on fixing my deadlift form, should I only use weight that I can keep good form with and just do sets of 5 until I get the form down and then move up in weight?
I'd be willing to lower the weight to fix my form, but I'm just worried that I may get weaker overall if I'm not using as heavy weights. I'm open to any suggestions because right now I don't really have a concrete plan for how to train my deadlift.
Yes. I looked at your deadlift training and it looks like you generally only do one set, where you try to set a rep pr. I'd do this instead: whenever you train deadlifts go 70% 3x3 75% 3x3 80% 3x 2 BEFORE you do any other deadlift training. Then go ahead and to whatever you were going to do (set your rep pr). Now you've got 24 reps to work on form, plus the last set where you go for a pr. On the last set, stop when your form breaks down, NOT when you can't get the bar up.
@Jake: We were actually intentionally only doing one set per week on these, with the goal of maxing at the end. We lowered the rep range each week and backed off on the extra exercises for rest in the last few weeks as well. Normally, I would suggest more rep work as well, but for this we were trying to cut back.
I definitely agree that form work is the 100% priority here now. As the video shows, almost everyone could use more work on form.
I don't think that cutting the 70-80% work, especially if you just lower the reps when you're tapering, will help. Having them lift heavy regularly will only reinforce bad form since their strongest positions right now are the wrong ones. If you still want to go heavy still include the other work, just less. I'd say it's better to go for heavy sets with good form (but still somewhat lighter than the they've been doing) and save the shitty reps for when they actually become shitty (at the contest with 100%, when form will naturally break down).
I don't think technique work should ever stop. Every rep is a chance to reinforce perfect technique, from the warm ups to your heaviest set.
What about more Good Mornings for lumbar work? The set-up is pretty similar to the start of a conventional deadlift, and they can really focus on arching their lower backs as well as getting their hips through.
To clarify, I am talking about GM's as supplemental work, not as a total replacement.
Good mornings would be fine if I thought for a second that anyone here is flexible enough to actually benefit from them. As an example, take your shirt off (or just wear under armor) and post a video of your good mornings.
The problem, especially in the case of good mornings, is flexibility. There's a much greater likelihood that you guys are flexible enough to get into the proper starting position for the deadlift than to do a proper good morning, and I doubt that anyone can get into a proper deadlift start position either.
Finally, there's no better way to get better at a movement than to actually practice the movement itself.
Mostly just agreeing with Jake, but good mornings will benefit just to increase lumbar strength. I don't think thats the issue here (the lumbar is being asked to do too much, actually). Deadlift-specific form and flexibility needs to be developed.
I actually think Good Mornings will have an excellent carry-over and that most guys on the team should be able to do them fine, assuming they get the form down.
15 comments:
congrats on the PR, 4 wheels is right around the corner.
just saw the video.
dude. not bad. you're extremely fast off the floor. work your upper back HARD and it will really improve your lockout strength. treat upper back day seriously and keep increasing the weight on the different movements (weighted pullups, t-bars, barbel/dumbbell rows, all that good shit dave does)
Thanks for the advice Brent. I noticed from your training recently that you've been doing mostly regular deadlifts and heavy upper back work for your pulling strength (and you've been making insane progress). Have you seen any benefits from doing rack pulls? I was thinking of incorporating these in addition to upper back work to help me get stronger where I failed 400 above my knees.
Also pay attention to Jake's comments. You need to be in the right form to pull through the top of the motion or all the upper back strength in the world won't mean shit. Or you can do rack pulls with an extremely rounded back to get practice. (Just kidding, don't do that.)
The whole point of upper back work is to allow you to keep your upper back from rounding on the deadlift, which helps keep you from pitching forward as your knees extend. You can strand almost upright with your upper back arched and your lower back rounded and still get 3 reds because you didn't actually lock out at the hip, which requires a straight lower back. Also, arching the lower back allows you to activate your glutes. Right now you are training your lower back, not your glutes. Your lower back needs to be strong in an arched position, not an extended position. I'll try to post a video of what I'm talking about.
Nathan and Jake, could you guys suggest a way to systematically go about getting better at using good form? If I wanted to really focus on fixing my deadlift form, should I only use weight that I can keep good form with and just do sets of 5 until I get the form down and then move up in weight?
I'd be willing to lower the weight to fix my form, but I'm just worried that I may get weaker overall if I'm not using as heavy weights. I'm open to any suggestions because right now I don't really have a concrete plan for how to train my deadlift.
Yes. I looked at your deadlift training and it looks like you generally only do one set, where you try to set a rep pr. I'd do this instead: whenever you train deadlifts go 70% 3x3 75% 3x3 80% 3x 2 BEFORE you do any other deadlift training. Then go ahead and to whatever you were going to do (set your rep pr). Now you've got 24 reps to work on form, plus the last set where you go for a pr. On the last set, stop when your form breaks down, NOT when you can't get the bar up.
In short: do Sheiko.
@Jake: We were actually intentionally only doing one set per week on these, with the goal of maxing at the end. We lowered the rep range each week and backed off on the extra exercises for rest in the last few weeks as well. Normally, I would suggest more rep work as well, but for this we were trying to cut back.
I definitely agree that form work is the 100% priority here now. As the video shows, almost everyone could use more work on form.
I don't think that cutting the 70-80% work, especially if you just lower the reps when you're tapering, will help. Having them lift heavy regularly will only reinforce bad form since their strongest positions right now are the wrong ones. If you still want to go heavy still include the other work, just less. I'd say it's better to go for heavy sets with good form (but still somewhat lighter than the they've been doing) and save the shitty reps for when they actually become shitty (at the contest with 100%, when form will naturally break down).
I don't think technique work should ever stop. Every rep is a chance to reinforce perfect technique, from the warm ups to your heaviest set.
What about more Good Mornings for lumbar work? The set-up is pretty similar to the start of a conventional deadlift, and they can really focus on arching their lower backs as well as getting their hips through.
To clarify, I am talking about GM's as supplemental work, not as a total replacement.
Good mornings would be fine if I thought for a second that anyone here is flexible enough to actually benefit from them. As an example, take your shirt off (or just wear under armor) and post a video of your good mornings.
The problem, especially in the case of good mornings, is flexibility. There's a much greater likelihood that you guys are flexible enough to get into the proper starting position for the deadlift than to do a proper good morning, and I doubt that anyone can get into a proper deadlift start position either.
Finally, there's no better way to get better at a movement than to actually practice the movement itself.
Mostly just agreeing with Jake, but good mornings will benefit just to increase lumbar strength. I don't think thats the issue here (the lumbar is being asked to do too much, actually). Deadlift-specific form and flexibility needs to be developed.
I actually think Good Mornings will have an excellent carry-over and that most guys on the team should be able to do them fine, assuming they get the form down.
Thanks for all the advice guys.
yea vit! way to set the record for the most comments on one post
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